Jefferson Fisher, a trial lawyer in Texas, did not seek to become an internet wise man. In early 2022, to raise the profile of a law firm that had just been founded in Silsby, Texas, Fisher began posting videos on social media, where he sat in a parked pickup truck and offered concise, realistic communication advice.
To his surprise, one video from his “How to Discuss Like a Lawyer” series went viral on Tiktok, which has earned over a day since he posted it, and Fischer had reached 500,000 followers on Instagram by the end of the year. By the following summer, his popularity had skyrocketed into another stratosphere, and he had quadrupled his Instagram following. Last July he launched a self-titled podcast, an incredibly practical and concise show. In the first season, the episode ran for about 14 minutes.
Bolstered by his loving accents and friendly presence, the fifth generation trial lawyer has built a reputation for teaching people how to have a rigorous conversation with confidence. He currently has 5.8 million Instagram followers, and his videos have been viewed over 500 million times across social media platforms.
Fisher, 36, lives in the small Texas town where he grew up, and along with his wife, lawyer and two children, provided communication tips for the couple. (He and his wife are one lessons of models for children? “Screams do not improve the logic of the position.
Speaking from his home studio, he also touched on ascending, giving him a theory as to why his techniques are related to modern audiences. His first book, The Next Conversation: Argue Loth, Talk More, will be appearing on March 18th.
This interview was compiled and condensed.
Tell us about the scaffolding that people should be around difficult conversations.
Most people don't have a goal about what they want in conversation, so others are just kind of speculation. They say, “Hey, how…? And the others say, “OK, where is your point?” And it brings the fear of “I don't know where this is heading.”
There is something called a frame that everyone can benefit from. Number one, you tell people the issues you want to talk about. The second is how you want to feel after the conversation. It's very important because you're inserting the goal. Now I know what you want to talk about. I know that conversations will take place when this goal is achieved. And the third is to frame their buy-in.
This may sound in relational settings. “I'd like to talk to you about our budget this week. I want to leave feeling like you and I are on the same page. Can I do that?” When they say “yes,” it's this invisible contract. Now they know exactly what you're trying to talk about. Rather than skimming the surface across the touchpoint, you can go very deep on one issue.
How can you make your important others acknowledge and understand what you are saying?
I was able to tell you something here. If you have never given me what you have heard, then I feel like my message is missing. You and I are not connected.
Or, if I admit you, but I didn't really understand that, I just say, “Yeah, that's crazy” – there's no connection there yet. “I want to talk to you about things that are important to me. I need to listen.” In my own life with my wife, she said, “I need to say this out loud. There's no need to fix it. I just handle it externally.” It prevents me from trying to become a doctor and trying to fix everything. But sometimes it says, “I feel like I've heard because I'm going to say this, and I'd like to hear you admit that.”
I tried this with my husband. He was mad at something. Usually I say, “Not now. I don't have time.” And I told him, “I'll admit what you're going through…”
yes!
And then, “Do we have to talk about this now?” he was very fiery and he actually told me, “No, we don't need to talk about this now. I just wanted you to admit it.”
I'm telling you, that's it! What I want to do is very similar. I ask, “Is this something we must agree to?” And if so, the second question is usually “Is this something we have to agree on now?” Or use it first.
How do you have a productive conversation about the big issue that you and your partner are not necessarily looking at your eyes?
The first mistake is to think that the first conversation will be the last one. You need to treat the first conversation as if you were preparing a second, third and fourth conversation. The bigger the problem, the more conversations you need.
You treat that initial conversation as nothing more than an information gathering and positioning session, which means starting the conversation by saying, “You don't have to agree with me.” You say: “I'm not asking you to agree with anything. I'm not asking you to come to a decision. I want you to hear my perspective. And most importantly, I want to hear your perspective.” And now there's no time constraints so no one is arguing.
Why do you think your videos and podcasts resonated so deeply with people?
I think they resonated because there is hunger and demand so people can speak again. My tips are very short and are about topics that everyone deals with. The way I deliver them encourages them to feel “can do this.”
Do you think it lies behind the cultural obsession with having “accurate phrases” in a particular situation?
We rely on sending texts and emails, and it has been such a long period of time that it has a sense of lost community. Previously, we had information around court plazas. They do not exist. We all went to the mall and met people. They are beginning to disappear. We went shopping online and now we don't want to go to the grocery store. Our human interactions are significantly narrowed and present problems. We are humans. We are going to connect and talk with other people.
How did you adapt to fame?
I don't know about that word “F.” But the truth is said, it was actually very lonely. Because no one in my world can relate to it. Somewhere in LA, everyone has a few followers. My small town in East Texas? No one has it. I introduced my anxiety and met the man, about a year ago this anxiety man, and it was different. Thankfully, I have a very patient wife, a very generous family. So I try to learn a little more every day. It took me a while, but I made friends in this area. It's really comforting. I know what is going on, and I can know what it is, because the Lord knows that I didn't.
